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footwear. >> it's never been easier to put on your shoes and help pets and neat at the same time with new hands-free skechers, bob's for dogs, sports lipids for slipping and go. and they have already helped save over 2 million pets welcome to a special edition of newsnight. >> i'm abby phillip in new york alongside laura coates. and tonight reunited from a distance and under subpoena, the former president of the united it states and the aide who was by his sayyed as he ascended the political ladder, they sat mere feet apart today, there was no mistaking it. hope hicks was inside manhattan courtroom against her will. the woman who spent years answering questions for trump was now answering questions from the prosecution government lawyers see hicks as the code breaker, the person who knows him about as well as anyone and most critically, she can speak to

his deep involvement in managing everything about his orbit. but did what hope hicks say while she was under oath actually do damage to the prosecution's case in some ways. >> i mean, through tears at times, she actually mapped out the final month, the 2016 campaign and tumultuous these as the campaign tried at least abby to navigate the method was the access hollywood tape, including by the way, the furious effort to make stormy stories go away. i mean, she recalled private conversation with cohen, said that she doubted that he would have made $130,000 payment, quote, out of the kindness of his heart recounted how the trump business function like a mom and pop shop with the quote core family members as the key deciders. the prosecution based scored it's most important poet and moment when they elicited this from hope hicks about the days after the wall street journal broke the story of trump's alleged tryst with the adult film actress and director saying, quote but i believe i heard mr. trump is speaking to mr. cohen shortly

after the story was published, but hicks may have also offered reasonable doubt gift-wrapped for the defense. as this case moves forward, the case hinges on if the prosecution can prove whether trump did what they alleged to benefit his campaign, that is critical. so his longtime aide hinted the trump may have in fact, care to keep the story quiet because of his wife here's the quote. he was concerned how it would be viewed by his wife and he wanted me to make sure that the newspapers were delivered to their residents that morning. our panel is here with us to page through all of the important moments from this dramatic de, we've got amoroso medical, newman, olivia newsy, stacey schneider, jennifer rodgers, and dante mills. quite a moment. i'm going to start on this end of the table because these are like the hope hicks whispers, maybe yeah. you're gonna be that for us at this table. but omura, so when you see all the transpired with

hope, the tiers the a6, but then also the testimony at the end of the day, what do you think? she provided for the prosecution? she was there witness on the witness stand today? but first, let me talk about what stood out to me. hope has this incredible memory. so anytime that she said that she couldn't remember or didn't recall. i know it's a legal tactic, but it was a little surprising for me in that respect. but there were some things that were very similar to my time working with her from the campaign into the white house. she is a message or for trump, and i think that she went into a default for that when she took some unnecessary jabs at cohen, she said that he broke things or he would create these situations where we broke them and he would have to fix them. and i thought that was really odd, particularly he had to fix things for her. i don't know if you guys recall her alleged relationship with cordelia and dow ski cohen had to kill stories about that relationship on her behalf, and he did. so i

thought some of those things were falling into the default of continuing you want to be a messenger for donald trump, but there were other moments that i thought were very poignant as she thinks that way you phrased that, especially because i think people often there's so much the absence of transparency about what really goes on behind the closed doors. >> and you hear her name with kellyanne conway, are others who were that maybe the true believers, so to speak. olivia and i do wonder or was she an ideolog west? she considered a partisan within the organization or why she considered some boyardee shaking your head? no. >> somebody who was just a communications person, she was a communications person. she became very close to the family and beginning in 2012 when she started working for ivanka trump and then she went into the trump organization can she really liked trump and she became very defensive of him if there was ever a bump, a bunker mentality as they took a lot of incoming all of it justified, i think from the press over all those years, she really felt like, why don't people see the trump that ic and i think it

took her a very long time. there was a lot of self-deception at play for every the one who stayed. and i think it took her a very, very long time to start to realize that the trump that she saw on a daily basis or how he treated her was not representative. and in fact, maybe just didn't matter at all relative to how he treated the country. >> and why would i mean, i'm looking at your mouth is near go ahead and clarify something. she was working for a wonka and it wasn't that she just kinda segwayed over for trump. he saw her he saw her as attractive and attractive woman, and he snatched her from ivanka. he wanted her to work for him because of her aesthetics. we all know that donald trump is a step obsessed with lux, and that is the soul reason that he chose her. he even tells the story about how she had absolutely no experience in this space. but because she was pretty he put her in top of coming notion knows. >> no, it is not affect. >> she snatched his matched her because of how she looked summary section of you, nobody

in that white house on that campaign? at whitehouse experience. so the idea that there were all of these like old hands from politics is wrong. >> in fact, it was the opposite. she had she been an outlier in terms of not having any political experience and that was pretty much the norm. it was sort of the island of misfit toys over there, just jump in just to defend her a little bit now that you guys are attacking her, but to look at it from a different angle, she came into this courtroom it's one thing we you know, you're going to have to testify against somebody because she was called by the prosecution, meaning she had ever but instead would hurt donald trump. >> otherwise, they wouldn't have called her. she knew that coming in. i'm sure that was tough for her to deal with. and you plan. i'm sure she went through a lot of preparation, but then you get an a courtroom. it's cold, it's large you see the defendants sitting at that table. >> the judge there. >> and i'm sure she went back to the default she said she was nervous. >> i'm sure she just went back to our default her comfort zone of donald trump was nice to me. i'm going to try to be nice to

him, but try and be as truthful as i possibly can. but you have to understand a situation she was in your under a lot of pressure and you know, the magnitude of the situation, and you're testifying against somebody who treated you well i just make an observation and this is a little informed by having covered trump if you're in the jury and you don't really understand trump world, you are coming to understand the gravity of it all. if you're a hope hicks the sense of loyalty that you have to this man, the emotion that's around that she wasn't just any employee, she wasn't like any white house staffer i think we take for granted that is being conveyed with the tears and with the emotion with the all of the testimony i think speaks to that. and what she testified to today, which was this was a campaign and a what she called a big business that was run like a small family

office, like a family corporation. all well, that i think is some atmospherics don't you think stacy for the jury to understand who is this guy and what does it like to work for him yes. >> and you know what why that is so important in this case is because donald trump's defense here, which was foreshadow in his lawyers opening statement is this had nothing to do with the campaign. this was for my family, my brand and my reputation, and what hope hicks has done is testified that donald trump, everybody reported to donald trump and the trump organization these little points are not coincidental. there intentional. >> the da's office put her on there as their witness. >> this is not donald trump's witness, even though they had a great relationship and supposedly they haven't been speaking since 2022, but clearly, her emotions where they were it's a favorable energy between the two of them, according to everybody who isn't in court today. >> but this was a true

strategic decision to show through hope hicks that while she was working on this campaign, she was getting calls from michael cohen about managing the campaign, even though everyone saying michael cohen was just the fixer, he had nothing to do with the campaign. >> he's a horrible person. he's difficult to work with. >> these are this hope hicks was the witness to tie trump back into the alleged scheme because trump's lawyers are going to pull him out and say michael cohen did this without permission from donald trump, except she said, listen, courts today and i wanted to clarify one thing and just because i don't want to linger for all the beautiful faces on this set. >> i didn't get the impression that hope hicks was just a pretty face to be dismissed. i got the impression that maybe there were some reason that perhaps he first noticed her to your point on my rosa, she's a striking woman in the courtroom. she and everywhere else. but my my impression to the testimony that would be listed from her from accounts is that she was good at what

she was doing, but she said he was the best at actually managing his own brand. and so when they brought around to that point about michael cohen, she considered him and went along with the testimony to affirm that she said, look, michael cohen was sometimes frustrating to the campaign he somehow sometimes was doing things that were not what they wanted them to do that he was a rogue person at times and which is probably an understatement in some respects of it. but i think she was trying to convey the point that in this mom and pop and i wanted your experience that nothing really went down that trump didn't have some fingerprints or some agency over was that your experience working there? >> that's absolutely my experience, but i want to clarify something. >> people say that michael wasn't involved with the campaign. it's just not true as someone who was there from day one and watch every one of those pieces put into place. there were only 14 of us. cohen was an integral part of the early organization in the trump campaign. anytime someone says that to me, it's just laughable and also, he actually

helped to organize some of the people who are in the key positions of the campaign strategically where they are. so when people dismiss him as just someone on the outside, it's just not the case. he traveled with us when we had to formulate this diversity coalition for donald, you'll see tons of pictures with him. look at the pictures from cleveland, look at the pictures from detroit. michael cohen is right there involved in the campaign. that's number one. number two, michael cohen cannot do anything in that organization without donald trump knowing without donald trump directing donald trump knew how maybe people we're in his lobby buying ice creams from the ice cream shop. how many people were coming into the parking garage in which parking attendant was working, isn't it? that's how involved he was in the organization to say that michael cohen went rogue is laughable. it's somebody who doesn't know trump wrote and doesn't know how donald trump will operate pick said his mom, rosa i mean, don't you think it's consistent with child trump operates? >> we were both on different seasons of the apprentice, but there's blurred lines between

his business, the trump organization, there were blur lines between the business, the tv show, his campaign, the white house, everything. you know, it's it's trump were all done. it's altogether you campaign the campaign. all us was that we all ended up in michael cohen's office. we all talked about all those different deals from golf courses to talk tv shows, to production companies which you agree, the central plate centerpiece of all that activity as we all party to michael cohen's office and all of the problems that went wrong, all the things in my left we ended up in there either taking shots are crying including hope hicks and to your point, i mean, the campaign office in 2016 is literally on the fifth floor, which was the apprentice studio. so they stopped telling you guys the jury doesn't the jury doesn't know that. so when hope hicks, who the jury believes has this special relationship comes in, they think she's an insider and she says, no, michael cohen was a rogue guy. he did things without trump knowing they

weren't in those offices with you when you know, that's laughable, that's not possible. so the issue for the prosecution is, will they bring in the right? witnesses? that's going to solidify that point and convinced the jury that trump knew everything that was going on, or will those little comments by hopes hit hope i hope hicks move the jury to think things can happen without him. i just want to remind, though, that she also was very clear. michael cohen was not going to write $130,000 check just to write 130 is hard, right. >> was not out of the kind of was not good. >> she implied that there was no kind of of his heart like that was the implication, but that's even while painting him in a negative light, that's a crucial piece of information. >> she also did some other things and by the way, i mean, this whole demeanor and the positive vibes mean that the jury believes her so when she said things like michael cohen was involved, i overheard michael cohen talking to trump about this stuff. i overheard conversations between trump and david pecker around this time about these things. the jury believes that they are taking these points at the prosecutors

are trying to build now, she doesn't get the prosecutors across the finish line or even close on the main craft i'm which is the falsification of business records. we still have to see that, but honestly, this part about was it about the election she's scored points for the prosecution there and that to me is a slam dunk. this notion that just because she said trump was also worried about what his wife thought, who cares, there's so much overwhelming evidence that this was about the election. all they have to do is show that that was a substantial part of it. i think that part is done. >> but thing is to anyone quick break but substantial is not quantified in new york's the idea of saying what substantial two you might be. well, it had to be 99% were in favor of melania and 1% of the campaign. but that's not actually quantifies got to be polymorphic with 50%. but this jury is going to have to think about what they think about it. >> they're gonna, they're gonna have to sort through all of that. i don't envy them. i really don't everyone stick around. so did hope hicks is testimony help or hurt trump's case ultimately will debate that again we'll speak with a fame jury consultant on the

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filter.com as easy as 123 welcome to the world of spycraft your eyes glued to the action. let's get down, let's get funky what are you concealing you? >> a communist sympathizer she is supervisor streaming exclusively on macs here's the big question. >> did hope hicks his testimony actually help or hurt donald trump's case jen rodgers mentioned a very important moment for the break and takes it that you have the transcript as well. i want you to read the part about melania trump. that's what i leaned in in the courtroom. okay. so here's directly from the transcript. here is what was elicited from hope hicks about melania.

president trump, really values mrs. trump's opinion, and she doesn't weigh in all the time. but when she does, it's really meaningful to him. he really respects what she has to say i think he was just concerned what her perception of this would be golden girls sofia patrol moment for second. all right. i'm sure at manhattan courtroom 2024, when this came out, it was so important because it was around the time he was trying to figure out was he concerned about the headlines and even when it's far as to say, hope hicks testified that he did not want the newspapers delivered to the residents because he was afraid that she would see it, which of course i thought is melania getting up in the morning and lead reading the paper and leading in. but you guys i mean, you're laughing at that bout, this a notion of me about the newspaper, but did he value melania trump's opinion? did he respected i mean, there were times that he did the truth of matters. he talked to ivana more often than he did. if two millennia about things that were important, he consulted

his first wife, ivana more than he would her, but the whole thing about the newspaper i i've been to trump's home. i don't know if you all have been there, like dropping newspapers that your soup i've never seen her hold a piece of paper for information since i met her i met them when they were engaged. that's not who she is. she might read it on her phone or on her ipad, but he really wasn't concerned about her son seeing a newspaper cover and it changing the pressure has to be some worry that he had about these kind of salacious things reaching his family and this is what we talked about before the break. >> we don't know what their line is going to be what the judge is going to instruct the jury on, if it can be a mixed bag, if it can be, i wanted to protect my family's name my reputation, my relationship with my wife, but the campaign also factored in. is that enough? because clearly they can show that he was doing things like this caching and telling stories before he was

running for president so if you follow that through and say this has nothing to do, wasn't about the presidency. he would have done this, whether he's running for president are not enough but and, angry wife is a problem, right? if you're running from your and your wife is mad at you and if she doesn't come out on the campaign trail and it's one allegation after another. there were two dozen allegations of some sort of sexual misconduct if all of a sudden, the lanyue is not involved, she takes a step back. that's a big political message. she did she didn't come down to washington for months right. >> and so i can see it that has already been a factor multiple times just because it's a family concern, doesn't mean that it's not also a political concern to optics concern. >> i want to say something legally, even if the defense is successful and the jury believes hope hicks, that he had this legitimate concern for his wife. it almost doesn't matter. he's being shot here being looked at for violating a new york state election conspiracy statute, where it's alleged that he conspired with michael cohen to promote a

candidate to office in an unlawful manner. so whether he did it for his wife, which he probably he he's charged with having an affair. it's accused of having i'm an affair. of course, he's going to be doing it also for his wife, but it doesn't matter because a celebrity has different rules when you're running for office, you're now no longer just a celebrity. you're now a candidate and you're governed by new york state and federal election law. >> those mean you can't aspect of it matter though. >> i mean, if the whole the whole point is, we think oftentimes you think about giant med words for example, and the case involving whether it was substantially in favor of political reasons or personal reasons. if the motivation was purely personal and had nothing to do with this, and they can make the argument then actually wasn't a campaign finance contribution that they failed to report. and that makes a difference? >> no, you're absolutely right. intense is crucial here and we're not going to know trump's intent from his own mouth because i bet i'm putting all odds and vegas that he will never take the stand no matter what he says. >> but we do dangerous, but we know it from his own mouth

through hope hicks and through david pecker it's such an important point that i mean, we are taking these days of testimony day by day, but in the aggregate, we do know that the origin of this catch and kill scheme started in 2015 when they met with david pecker and said is, what will give you the case, what can we do for the campaign? >> so that evidence is also there and presumptively at the end of this process, it's all going to be brought together, but i mean, to me, there are multiple pieces of evidence, right, jen, that suggests that this was definitely not i mean, even david pecker said they didn't really not done this for trump before. you know, they did it. >> yes, but not no, no, no. >> i'm saying right. karen mcdougal and stormy daniels were part of something that was new about their relationship with trump, and they did it after that 2015 minutes timing.

>> i mean, the weeks before the election, they're trying to avoid paying stormy daniel's because once you get past election day, you don't even have to shell out the money because who cares? i mean, all of that evidence, some of it has already come in, some of it is coming in. this is overwhelming this to me is not the complicated piece of this puzzle. the complicated part is, can you prove that he you about the fraudulent repayments gap because that is the crime this charge and that's what they have to play. and that's what they haven't taken. we can we i am talking about the crime. i can help. i mean, i know i know this is all very important. but laura coates is nosy and laura coates was leaning into the tiers today and i have got to know what you guys may inspections as you guys know her as a report, obviously, you've worked with her. >> what did you make of the moment that hope hicks started crying? i mean, in the forum it was was crying when the prosecution was questioning. i know it was actually at the it was when the cross if he can write after at 18 finished right. so it made me just kinda believe that it was just all becoming too much for her. i will say that she's a very sensitive person and i saw her cry often actually really if

donald yep. yeah. she is a crier. attacks. hold on. what? >> if he if he yelled at her something or he criticized her for how she handled something, she would hold it together in front of him, but she would go into michael cohen's officers. so what else is office? but she's big crier you guys. this is common for hope hicks to have a moment or woman, especially if she cried after the direct examiner beijing where the prosecution struck some points against donald trump, it may have hitter that she may be part of the reason that donald trump will go down and to sit in that in that second, it can be. i'm sure it can be overwhelming and that may have led to those tears. >> her time with her time with trump represents a huge portion of her life, right? she started working there in her mid-twenties she went with him to the white house, not something that she ever thought would happen, not something most people ever thought would happen in her defense and sitting there, all these memories are being brought up. so just thinking as a human being i mean for people who covered this, it's been an experience of what year is it? i haven't talked to you in

years since we were in the white house together in 2017? it's been this very strange sort of disorients. >> there has been a rift. she hasn't talked to trump and chew years and part of that is because when she testified before the january 6 committee, she said things that trump wouldn't like that though after he lost the presidency. i mean, there were, there was a group of people who are around trump who it became if they stayed, they didn't resign. they get no credit for resigning in protest but he became it became useless to talk to him. and so daily conversations, daily, how is it playing? as we heard about him? i'm talking today about the stormy daniels story that was not a factor anymore. he was listening to sidney powell and rudy giuliani and so everything changed. and so i think for her sitting here today in this courtroom, reliving all of this, sitting feet from him. it's a very fraught, very emotional, very stressful thing. and as someone who was a crier and people who were which with her knew that trump knew

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and see how much you can save i'm on roger and capitol hill. >> this is sienna we've got more now on the dramatic moment and donald trump's trial as his longtime insider, hope hicks broke down on the stand. the moment came after prosecutors had wrapped there are questioning which revealed that trump communicate directly to her about the hush money payment and that he was relieved that the story did not come out before the election.

now, she testified, quote, it was mr. trump's opinion is that it was better to be dealing with it now and that it would have been bad to have that story come out before the election. and moments later, as the defense was beginning their own questioning, she became overwhelmed with emotion and turned her face and began to cry prompting the defense counsel to ask if she needed a break and she said that she did they dismissed the jury. she got off the stand to go gathers up, and of course, the prosecution and followed her out. remember, this is their witness. they had actually called for a subpoena so the question is, how will the jury who witnessed her crying on the stand? how will they see all of this joining us now is already consultant richard gabriel is also the president of decision analysis and the author of acquittal. an insider reveals the stories and strategies behind today's most infamous verse verdict. so richard, i'm so glad you're here to unpack this because, you know what it takes to put together a jury to try to get your clients the very best chance. and so we're thinking about the competition

that this jury and who might take the stand you never can predict whether a witness will start being angry, will be emotional, will cry. how does that read to a jury when the witness breaks down well it's let's not forget that trials are essentially human events. >> and jurors, even though they're looking at this sort of cut and dried evidence that they're supposed to view objectively. they're really looking for one are the authentic moments? am i getting the straight story? and when you have a witness like this, who exhibit some vulnerability, exhibit some human emotion, who's clearly conflicted because she's trying to tell the truth, but also feel some sort of loyalty to our former boss. that's an authentic moment. jurors can appreciate that, and then it's up to them to sort out. okay? >> first of all, it increases her credibility as a witness, and then it's up to them both sides to kind of characterize

what is the damage done or the redemption from the particular testimony. >> so it's a very interesting type of testimony. >> yeah. i mean, i was in the courtroom when it happened and i remember thinking, gosh, what will the jury make of what she has said? read before she was your comes back and there was a moment beforehand that some argue was the trigger for why she broke down in seeing it in real time, it almost appeared that she was just overwhelmed by the extent in the moment itself. >> but then i was concerned, i mean, as far prosecutor, do are you surprised was a lost opportunity for this jury that the defense council didn't ask what caused her to be emotional, even though it may have caused him to ask a question, he did not know the answer to well, you know, the old adage, don't ever ask a question if you don't know the answer, i think they were afraid of what she was actually going to say, but i think that probably the read about her being overwhelmed is very true. >> so it's incredibly stressful just being a witness on the own on their own. but even in this trial, especially and i think that kind of

emotion is a natural thing. it's almost a relief i think for the jury to be able to kind of go. okay. here's somebody who is being authentic, who's telling us she's nervous and is clearly conflicted. but what i also think is really interesting about this testimony. both sides are laying in the themes and the framework for ultimately what i think they're gonna be arguing to the jury and closing argument here. so i think the testimony really did cut both ways. both sides made some points with it richard, this is abby phillip, but i wonder what you think the jury makes of trump as they are watching a hope hicks come to the stand or a david pecker come to the stand i mean they all kind of tell of a certain kind of relationship with this sort of larger than life figure. >> what do you think that they're taking in from all of that well, i think they're trying to really absorb what is this relationship? >> who is this man? i mean, the big question really is, is he actually going to testify in

this case because that's going to be significant and is his testimony going to resemble the kind of public persona that we tse with him or is he going to exhibit a type of vulnerability which i think this jury really needs to see in order for him to maintain credibility. so i think by blame all these pieces together, kind of bringing his inner circle, they are getting a portrait of the relationships there and to a certain extent, i think the defense is trying to humanize him to say, okay, there are people that really do care about them that do care about his message and aren't just sort of on the sum of the of his abuse that he can be known to have dealt dish out. so i think it's very complex relationship that the jury is starting to get a picture of. >> i understand. >> one thing about it. i know as a drake it's not just about picking the jury, but it's also about giving advice and counsel to the strategy of who's going to cross-examine which witness what's your tone going to be like? who are you going to

identify as hostile or i mean, i was struck by the tone and the tenor of the conversation from the defense counsel, emil bove, a, his his tone was kind of relational. it wasn't patronizing, it was soft-spoken without being condescending that to me sounded like somebody had guided that well i think it's somebody who guided it, perhaps, but also a seasoned attorney really understands. they have to read the room. they have to really understand what is the tone here. he may he was probably repaired. okay. she going to see some really damaging stuff. and do i need to go after her hard, but i think that because she exhibited this kind of vulnerability because she did cry. he had to really back pedal and say, okay, i need to take a softer tone. i need to adjust it. i need to be somewhat sympathetic. i think i need to bring that out and then score my points. maybe in a more nuanced way instead of attacking her, which could then lose credibility for me and the case yeah. i mean, when you're dealing with a high-profile

defendant, it's really tricky that line between humanizing him and painting a picture that people don't believe about what kind of person he is sottile, it's interesting to see how they deal with that with the jury going forward, richard gabriel. thank you very much for joining us. >> thank up. next, every one of donald trump's conspiracy theories is actually taking a hit right now as another democratic lawmaker has been indicted, plus there's new cnn reporting tonight about kristi noem was chances of maybe being his running mate after she revealed killing her puppy every, piece of evidence tells us store how would really happened. jesse l. martin, sunday's at nine on cnn with armor off a little bit of this protects you from a lot of that

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trump's most repeated conspiracy theory is that there is a deep-state and it's unfairly targeting him because he's a republican. but more proof tonight that that is baseless. >> if you needed more proof is based, let's amend the justice department dieting another lawmaker and guess what? southern democrat, this time it's democratic congresswoman henry cuellar and his wife. they are accused of accepting nearly $600,000 in bribes from foreign entities in the prosecution is saying they crafted a scheme with an oil and gas company controlled by another country. now in a statement, cuellar ny, the accusations writing and i'm quoting here, i want to be clear that both my wife and i are innocent of these allegations. everything i have done in congress has been to serve the people of south texas. now, cuellar is actually the third lawmaker in the last nine months to be charged by the department of justice. >> you may remember the back-end said i'm for democratic senator bob menendez and his wife were charged with

conspiracy to commit bribery honest services fraud, and extortion. he was also charged with a conspiracy for a public official to act as a foreign agent and of course, exiled republican congressmen, george santos he was charged back in october with wire fraud and money laundering, among other things. house voted to expel him from congress in december. remember, the president's own son, president biden, his son is facing gun charges brought by president biden's doj over rosa olivia, jennifer, all back with us along with political analysts and author of the end of race politics, coleman hughes and cnn political commentator jamal simmons first of all, what is going on in congress i don't even have time for that answer. >> so just short was going on that these lawmakers feel like they can do anything even approaching this butt to have

to basically facing very similar charges with menendez, some quail or is really extraordinary i mean, it's this congress, right? there's a history of this long of members of congress who are getting in trouble abs scam. you remember the banking crisis, the keating senators we've seen this before and congress, so there's a little fast and loose to sometimes gives play with some of the members, but we'll wait to see what happens when these cases because they gotta get tried and we got to see all the evidence, so we don't really know what will happen. i remember build jefferson, who was a congressman that i knew from louisiana, who got caught with money in the freezer. right. so we all remember these cases of its members of congress who've gotten in trouble. it's something that, that's why i keep all my money cold, hard cold. i'm just kidding ogre, my freezer and we ask you, jennifer, though, because this is a trial for menendez happening like days from now. >> i know there's been a big focus on trump, but his narrative, but it's only happening dam no one ever goes after a politicians only because he's a these vying for this overlap is yet again, but

that trial starts like ten days starts and ten days right next door to the courthouse where trump is being tried. and then this is going to be tried in federal court, tried by democratic lead doj prosecutors who charged this democratic senator for various serious crimes and mean we talked about the charges against trump, unlikely history, jail time, even if convicted, not true. senator menendez, his are serious charges and he will go to prison if he's convicted for sure. >> so why do you think coleman and the idea of this narrative that it has some staying power for a lot of people who look at these issues and say, okay, if trump because saying it's a to tiered system addresses and frankly, i think we have a legal system and sorts of justice system from my personal experience, having prosecuted cases. but it seems to only apply to people. there's a polyphony happening of that. it's sometimes the haves and have nots, but he's saying it's the political issue. specifically, why is that continuing to resonate? >> so get resonates partly because it's the stronger version of the argument is not

that there's a partisan bias. republican versus democrat. the stronger version of the argument would be that trump is biden's political rival and it's biden's doj. so the actual, the actual stronger counter argument to that would be the the indictment of hunter biden, although there is argument about whether that was a sweetheart deal or not, and there were many people on both sides of that. that's a whole separate topic, but i think the stronger version is, is not the partisanship per say, which is a crazy argument. it is. is he prosecuting a political rival? >> and that point, according we know that it's not biden's white house or biden's doj. that is fulton county or of course, is the manhattan da's office. but i wonder, i mean, you have been in the campaign and you have a lot of political experience it's trump trying, to capitalize on what he perceives as the ignorance. and i'm going to say a negative way, but the ignorance of the average voter who doesn't know how the political sausage is made, that he wants them to believe this is how it all works. >> oh, absolutely. enlarge the irony is that he actually

weaponized the justice department against me. i think it's sitting up here he actually took a file. >> when you don't file on time and he magnified it so that they tried to come after me after i wrote my book and he literally did it two weeks after the book came out. >> so he's accusing the other side of something that he's actually done over and over again throughout the four years that he was in office so he is trying to exploit the ignorance of people who just don't know how things function in washington. and he's playing victim and it's very hard to know how things function in normal times when donald trump was president donald trump is the one who weaponized as these things. yeah. but you know, as bill clinton about janet reno, he wouldn't say that was bill clinton's justice department that was generous. raynaud's justice department. and she had independent counsels launched against the clinton and to be fair, it is unusual for the president, a former president, to have gone through all the trials and tribulations that he

has. but that's not because it's been weaponized against them. it's because of his own actual conduct president in, this election claiming that he going to weaponize the department of justice that's what's strange about this as an attack on president biden. his big pitch to voters in part is that he's going to seek retribution. >> he's going to spend his at least first term in the white house or first-year and the white house of his second term, prosecuting people who he feels or his political enemies, getting back get his law enforcement tormentors. this is an essential part of his pitch right now to voters, by the way, as speaker johnson is being criticized by a congressman, marjorie taylor greene, in part because she's saying he had good udacity to fully fund the doj and she sees them as part and parcel to the weaponization. >> it's very strange. this is the party of law and order that's what republicans like to say, right? in one breath, they're saying back the blue and they've kind of defaced the american flag for, for law enforcement. and another breath they're saying that the justice department is corrupt and out for them, it's very strange and sort of discordant justice for the, not for me

well, jennifer, i mean, when you hear this demeanor, it strikes a chord with me when people it's almost like the since everyone is so concerned about injustice and inequity than it should, every party and everyone's we thinking about all the ways to correct the justice system, but no one's doing that. >> it's only selectively as it relates to donald trump. and even that to abby's point he has been indicted not just by individually visual prosecutors, but grand juries were a part of this, of course. of course, then the two federal cases that are in play were brought by jack smith is special counsel who was brought in to have a measure of independence from the justice department. people also don't understand how long these investigations take. i mean, he wants it to be like the moment that you bring a case that's when it kind of sprung into being. these cases, i mean, the 100 biden case, of course, was started being investigated when trump was president. >> these menendez case, the same like these things take years to bring this notion when he says oh, they brought these cases against me after i declared i was running for president, he was under investigation for many, many months if not years before that, these things are not just

fraud on a dime. >> well, let's talk about governance there. kristinoem, can we for a second because if the beefsteak time and tomorrow, there apparently i'm going to call it the hunger games happening, right? that's going on. whoever the odds are in their favor, apparently, we're learning from reporting that might be a little bit soured to governor kristi noem, who had been right in there in the running continuously, coleman, when you look at it just. the passage that she talks about having her book, having killed a dog that she said could not have been trained, that's been getting a lot of publicity or is it something else? >> it's hard to imagine an issue that unites americans more than loving dogs. and from a lot of other countries perspectives, they would say other shocked the degree to which we love our dogs because that's not a global phenomenon but it's hard to imagine imagine a bigger screw up if you're someone that's trying to gain the affections of it's not a partisan issue, right people, this is the one thing that i can unite americans on the right and the left.

>> so it's just having that small meme and people's heads that she's killed a dog and that's all people are going to know. they're not going to know that he is my right eye like yes, that mean is good or there might be some way to defend it, right? >> if we had the full context, i don't know, but that's not what people are going to see. people are going to see woman killed dog. and that's just an absolute attacked for all of the images of them hunting with game. and they were posing and taking selfies so that kinda paus on. that's it. it's done for her. she's not going to be his vice president. donald trump doesn't like anyone who's negatives are bigger than his, and they're going to draw all of the attention if he did adder to the ticket, but i think she's finished tomorrow. >> what's the smart way for democrats? so on the one hand acknowledge this, but not overplay their hand because i always see a tendency to think that you get lulled into a false sense of smuggler i think first, the first rule of any vice presidential pick is to do

no harm, right what we know now is that she would do the presidential candidate harm if she were brought on because this would be one of the story lines for the democrats donald trump is just so rich, the hardest part about it is there's so many things to choose from a donald trump that you can end up popping off all the time against all the things that are occurring. and then you find that nobody is really holding onto anything because there's so many issues that you've put on the table that people don't know how they thread together. so the whole point of the campaign is to tell a narrative story and each one of these incidents has to evoke a piece of evidence for the thesis, not just stand-alone staar of its was that saying every if you see your competitor falling off a cliff, don't stop them i've just paraphrase it are especially primetime coverage continues that's the trump hush money trial gavel to gavel

coverage. >> this is unprecedented to have a candidate for the white house as a criminal defendant. we've never been here. >> the weight only cnn can bring it to you seeing them reporters are covering every angle of this trial. legal insight, expert analysis. >> let's go through some key takeways and real-time updates live from the courtroom. this is riveting testimony money that we are getting. >> follow the facts follow the testimony, follows cnn smile. >> you found it the feeling of bindings, psoriasis can't filter out the real you. so go ahead, live unfiltered with the one and only so tick to a once-daily pill for moderate to severe prac psoriasis and the chance that clear or almost clear skin, it's like the feeling of finding yourself ready for your close-up or finding you don't have to hide your skin. just your background once-daily subject to was proven better, getting more people clearer skin than the leading pill. don't take if you're allergic to so take too serious reactions can occur. so tiktok lower your ability to

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